I've been dabbling for a while with a C64 BBS setup. I've experimented
with Image3, C*BASE, C-NET and Color64. Even the recently updated ones are super fickle on old hardware -- if you are fortunate to have a CMD
FD-4000, so much easier -- but support varies across BBS software for
modems, and SD2IEC devices have limited REL file support, etc.

Lots of boards use WINVICE for C64 emulation - so much simpler. Totally
get it. But I wanted to run a BBS *on* a C64. Nostalgia is rearely
practical.

I was getting getting random freezes with SD-based storage, Swiftlink incompatibilities, and both my 1541's shit the bed - who knows,
maybe it's just my 40 year old C64.

So I finally whipped out my Ultimate C64 Elite (FPGA based C64 - quite incredible). Sure it's technically hardware emulation, but *feels* great.
I loaded up Tao's "C*Base 3.3.8+ 2024 (C/BBS 11)" which is specifically
adapted for the U64. Grabbed it from CSDb.

And it just worked. Screaming at U64's 48mhz turbo mode, the
wireless modem answers, BBS loads, etc. U64 comes built in with 2
emulated drives (e.g. 1581's) and a softiec, so storage is not really a problem.

Haven't got much further, going to need a ton of customization and
testing, but I'm super pumped at the progress!

|07 .'|08.
|07 ||15o|08| |03J0hnny A1pha
|07 .'|15o|08'. |06gOLD mINE HQ
|07 |.-.|08| |08---------------------
|07 '|14( |12)|08' |05SpaceJunkBBS.com|13:|052323
|07 |12)

--- Talisman v0.54-dev (Linux/x86_64)
* Origin: Space Junk! BBS :: SpaceJunkBBS.com:2323 (1337:3/123)

On 25 Sep 2024, j0hnny a1pha said the following...

I've been dabbling for a while with a C64 BBS setup. I've experimented with Image3, C*BASE, C-NET and Color64. Even the recently updated ones
are super fickle on old hardware -- if you are fortunate to have a CMD FD-4000, so much easier -- but support varies across BBS software for modems, and SD2IEC devices have limited REL file support, etc.

Lots of boards use WINVICE for C64 emulation - so much simpler. Totally get it. But I wanted to run a BBS *on* a C64. Nostalgia is rearely practical.

I was getting getting random freezes with SD-based storage, Swiftlink incompatibilities, and both my 1541's shit the bed - who knows,
maybe it's just my 40 year old C64.

So I finally whipped out my Ultimate C64 Elite (FPGA based C64 - quite incredible). Sure it's technically hardware emulation, but *feels* great. I loaded up Tao's "C*Base 3.3.8+ 2024 (C/BBS 11)" which is specifically adapted for the U64. Grabbed it from CSDb.

And it just worked. Screaming at U64's 48mhz turbo mode, the
wireless modem answers, BBS loads, etc. U64 comes built in with 2
emulated drives (e.g. 1581's) and a softiec, so storage is not really a problem.

Haven't got much further, going to need a ton of customization and testing, but I'm super pumped at the progress!

What a cool project, I hope you keep at it and make it something super special. Would love to see it in action (both as a caller and the sysop side) - Would you do a video of it?

Does the C64 BBS have echomail capability? If so we could get it on tqwNet and have it's own node number. That'd be super cool.

---
|14Best regards,
|11Ch|03rist|11ia|15n |11a|03ka |11Me|03aTLoT|11io|15N // @meatlotion:erb.pw

|07ÄÄ |08[|10eml|08] |15ml@erb.pw |07ÄÄ |08[|10web|08] |15www.erb.pw |07ÄÄÄ¿ |07ÄÄ |08[|09fsx|08] |1521:1/158 |07ÄÄ |08[|11tqw|08] |151337:1/101 |07ÂÄÄÙ |07ÄÄ |08[|12rtn|08] |1580:774/81 |07ÄÂ |08[|14fdn|08] |152:250/5 |07ÄÄÄÙ
|07ÄÄ |08[|10ark|08] |1510:104/2 |07ÄÙ

... The shortest distance between two points is under construction

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/04/30 (Linux/64)
* Origin: thE qUAntUm wOrmhOlE, rAmsgAtE, uK. bbs.erb.pw (1337:1/101)

What a cool project, I hope you keep at it and make it something super special. Would love to see it in action (both as a caller and the
sysop side) - Would you do a video of it?

Thank you, mL. I was thinking about video! I feel like once I get a setup
that can be replicated i could def. record something.

Does the C64 BBS have echomail capability? If so we could get it on
tqwNet and have it's own node number. That'd be super cool.

In my research, it seems there was only one C128 BBS software that claimed
to have FTN ability, I think it was called "VORTEX" and Zimmer's gives it
a pretty poor rating (and not C64).

That said, IMAGE and C-NET (maybe even C*BASE) seem to have some sort of
add-on propietary echo networking functions. I wonder if that could be
used to import/export to the FTN standard...? That would be DOPE

|07 .'|08.
|07 ||15o|08| |03J0hnny A1pha
|07 .'|15o|08'. |06gOLD mINE HQ
|07 |.-.|08| |08---------------------
|07 '|14( |12)|08' |05SpaceJunkBBS.com|13:|052323
|07 |12)

--- Talisman v0.54-dev (Linux/x86_64)
* Origin: Space Junk! BBS :: SpaceJunkBBS.com:2323 (1337:3/123)

On 25 Sep 2024, j0hnny a1pha said the following...

I've been dabbling for a while with a C64 BBS setup. I've experimented with Image3, C*BASE, C-NET and Color64. Even the recently updated ones
are super fickle on old hardware -- if you are fortunate to have a CMD FD-4000, so much easier -- but support varies across BBS software for modems, and SD2IEC devices have limited REL file support, etc.

Good to hear you got it running well.. I ran both Image 1.2 and 3.0 on a U64 for a while, I had no issues with REL file support or the Turbo 232 running, I had the T232 hooked up to a PC using BBS Server (at first the built in modem was not available, but when it became available their were issues until recently). As much as I would love to make Image fully U64 compatible, there is just to many issues still with the swiftlink emulation of the U64. REL support has no issues with a uIEC/SD by Jim Brain, it works out of the box, I only ran a command to turn off the p00 and s00 extentions and used the proper PRG and SEQ etc. The only issues you will have with SDIEC's is they are basically huge 1541's and when the directories start getting long, the drive access times drop tremendously as the file is searched from top to bottom in the directory...

I am sure you won't have this issue with C*Base but keep an eye on the files being written, the 1541 and 1581 can not keep up with the Turbo speeds, you can get around this if it hasn't already been written into the software by turning off turbo speed when writing to disk. Sort of the way to do file transfers turn off turbo and they work flawlessly. Anyways, I am babbling.. LOL


|11 Bucko |14- |06Wrong Number Family Of BBS' |07- |03www.wrgnbr.com

... We all live in a yellow subroutine...

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: The Wrong Number Family Of BBS' - Wrong Number ][ (1337:3/102)

On 26 Sep 2024, j0hnny a1pha said the following...

That said, IMAGE and C-NET (maybe even C*BASE) seem to have some sort of add-on propietary echo networking functions. I wonder if that could be used to import/export to the FTN standard...? That would be DOPE

The Image network is not FTN compatible. If anyone remembers Frank from SCINet he was going to write a go between to do just that take the FTN packages and convert them to something Image could read, and vice versa.. Only issue with FTN networks and the C64 unless you are running at U64 at 48mhz you will find the message packages are just to large to process. Running on a Lt Kernal system the Machine is running at 1mhz. The HD is fast but the machine is not. When I was running the NISSA network back in the early 90's as Administrator, we had a break down of one of the legs of the network (Back then the network ran from BBS to BBS not a HUB style network like we have now) and I got a 600+ block file of message base posts. That is equal to just about a full 1541 disk which is 330k it took 32 hours to process the file thus rendering the BBS useless as the BBS processes live and not in the background. I have had times when I would get 5 meg message packages in Fido and on my PC it takes seconds to process it with Mystic. Even at 48mhz that would take probably a couple of hours to process.

So can it be done? Sure! Should it be done? Unless you are going to keep the messages down to a minimum no..


|11 Bucko |14- |06Wrong Number Family Of BBS' |07- |03www.wrgnbr.com

... The caterpillar does all the work but the butterfly gets all the publicity

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: The Wrong Number Family Of BBS' - Wrong Number ][ (1337:3/102)

Good to hear you got it running well.. I ran both Image 1.2 and 3.0 on
a U64 for a while, I had no issues with REL file support or the Turbo
232 running, I had the T232 hooked up to a PC using BBS Server (at
first the built in modem was not available, but when it became
available their were issues until recently). As much as I would love
to make Image fully U64 compatible, there is just to many issues still
with the swiftlink emulation of the U64. REL support has no issues
with a uIEC/SD by Jim Brain, it works out of the box, I only ran a
command to turn off the p00 and s00 extentions and used the proper PRG
and SEQ etc. The only issues you will have with SDIEC's is they are basically huge 1541's and when the directories start getting long, the
drive access times drop tremendously as the file is searched from top
to bottom in the directory...

Bucko, you are literlly my go-to resource for all things C64 BBS related,
and I appreciate the support you've given me on Discord :)

How do you turn off the p00/s00 extensions? I tried exporting Image3
files to SD via DirMaster, and used "Bulk Rename Utility" app (WIN) and couldn't get Image past some of the config screens. I'd love to use
Image3 as it's pretty actively supported. I'm using Jim Brain's uIEC/SD
device now -- it was my birthday present, along with a RetroTink!

|07 .'|08.
|07 ||15o|08| |03J0hnny A1pha
|07 .'|15o|08'. |06gOLD mINE HQ
|07 |.-.|08| |08---------------------
|07 '|14( |12)|08' |05SpaceJunkBBS.com|13:|052323
|07 |12)

--- Talisman v0.54-dev (Linux/x86_64)
* Origin: Space Junk! BBS :: SpaceJunkBBS.com:2323 (1337:3/123)

The Image network is not FTN compatible. If anyone remembers Frank
from SCINet he was going to write a go between to do just that take
the FTN packages and convert them to something Image could read, and
vice versa.. Only issue with FTN networks and the C64 unless you are
running at U64 at 48mhz you will find the message packages are just to
large to process. Running on a Lt Kernal system the Machine is running
at 1mhz. The HD is fast but the machine is not. When I was running the
NISSA network back in the early 90's as Administrator, we had a break
down of one of the legs of the network (Back then the network ran from
BBS to BBS not a HUB style network like we have now) and I got a 600+
block file of message base posts. That is equal to just about a full
1541 disk which is 330k it took 32 hours to process the file thus
rendering the BBS useless as the BBS processes live and not in the background. I have had times when I would get 5 meg message packages
in Fido and on my PC it takes seconds to process it with Mystic. Even
at 48mhz that would take probably a couple of hours to process.

Yeah, that's a huge blocker for sure. I guess if you are running a C64
BBS, it makes sense things aren't going to work that way. Small
storage, even if it's an emulated 1581, and no multi-tasking. Even if you
set a max number of messages per echo, the processing would be
problematic.

How is NISSA running these days?

|07 .'|08.
|07 ||15o|08| |03J0hnny A1pha
|07 .'|15o|08'. |06gOLD mINE HQ
|07 |.-.|08| |08---------------------
|07 '|14( |12)|08' |05SpaceJunkBBS.com|13:|052323
|07 |12)

--- Talisman v0.54-dev (Linux/x86_64)
* Origin: Space Junk! BBS :: SpaceJunkBBS.com:2323 (1337:3/123)

On 26 Sep 2024, j0hnny a1pha said the following...

Bucko, you are literlly my go-to resource for all things C64 BBS related, and I appreciate the support you've given me on Discord :)

Thanks bud.. It's nothing, I just act like I know what I am talking about.. ;)

How do you turn off the p00/s00 extensions? I tried exporting Image3
files to SD via DirMaster, and used "Bulk Rename Utility" app (WIN) and couldn't get Image past some of the config screens. I'd love to use
Image3 as it's pretty actively supported. I'm using Jim Brain's uIEC/SD device now -- it was my birthday present, along with a RetroTink!

I believe it is the XE+ command so you would in JiffyDOS hit @XE+ then @XW to save it. WIthout JiffyDOS it's open 15,dv,15:print#15,"XE+":close15 I think.. Been a while since I used those commands. What that should do is save files as SEQ, USR,REL and PRG.. If that doesn't work then let me know and I will find the right info..


|11 Bucko |14- |06Wrong Number Family Of BBS' |07- |03www.wrgnbr.com

... The dog ate my .REP packet

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: The Wrong Number Family Of BBS' - Wrong Number ][ (1337:3/102)

On 26 Sep 2024, j0hnny a1pha said the following...

Yeah, that's a huge blocker for sure. I guess if you are running a C64 BBS, it makes sense things aren't going to work that way. Small
storage, even if it's an emulated 1581, and no multi-tasking. Even if you set a max number of messages per echo, the processing would be problematic.

How is NISSA running these days?

Very true, lol and back then that large file got transferred at 2400bps! LOL With emulation now running a LTK or a CMD HD is the way to go for running a BBS. The way my Image is set up if you didn't know that it was run on a 64 you couldn't tell. 20mhz SuperCPU emulation, CMD 4.1gig HD, Ramlink to make it even faster, and 38.4k Turbo232 speed. It just doesn't make sense anymore to spend $100-$150 for a C64, then another $400+ for a HD, $100 for a Turbo232, another $50-$100 for a Power Supply, and you are still running at 1mhz. Plus you have to worry about that 40 year old motherboard losing chips to surges or age. This is why when I first got back into things, I got on eBay and bought a i5, with 8gigs, and a 1TB HD I installed WinVice, then created the FD4000 disks, and used the SCPU emulation for a faster BBS. If you lose a $30 Dell off lease computer to a storm who cares? It was $30, and it is extremely easy now with my (gratuitous plug here) BBS on a Stick. In Windows all it is is Unzip, copy the unzipped Directory to your C:\ Drive, rename the folder to IM3, and double click the runme.bat. In Linux it is double click a install script in Debian based systems and it downloads all the pre-requisites, installs the latest Vice, changes some RS232 files in Vice to fix file transfers so they work, and then from the terminal typing im3.sh and you are off to the races. Plus you can use the computer for other things also! Keep the real Commodore stuff for gaming, and just enjoying what computing was on a Commodore back in the 80's and 90's..

NISSA is good, We converted the network from a line of calling A to B to C to D etc. to a Hub and Spoke setup. There are 4 HUBS, I run 2 and X-Tec runs 2. Off of the HUBS there are I believe up to 9 spokes on each. So messages now flow from any board to the rest of the network in max 2 hours. Before it could take several hours, hell in the 90's it could take a week from one end to the other. LOL So that is it from me.. :)


|11 Bucko |14- |06Wrong Number Family Of BBS' |07- |03www.wrgnbr.com

... Error, no Keyboard - Press F1 to Continue.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: The Wrong Number Family Of BBS' - Wrong Number ][ (1337:3/102)